Teacher tales: debunking the myths about teaching gifted students

Transcript

Introduction:

You’re listening to the Victorian Academy of Teaching and Leadership podcast where we showcase conversations with some of the world’s biggest thought leaders in education. We also bring you the thoughts and reflections of teachers and school leaders from across Victoria.

Kimberly Silva:

Hello everyone. Welcome to Teacher Tales, the series that celebrates the joy of teaching and learning. My name is Kimberly Silva from Mount Rowan Secondary College in Ballarat, and I am currently the Mets leader and an innovate program.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Hello, my name's Christine Lambrianidis. I'm the director of pedagogy at Suzanne Cory High School, which is an awesome select entry school in the western suburbs of Melbourne. And today, we'll be looking at some misconceptions about gifted students. Kim, have you heard often statements like, 'Gifted kids, they do so well, they don't need a teacher."

Kimberly Silva:

Absolutely. I always hear that. Especially for select entry schools.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah, gifted programs, they leaders. It's streaming. Well, in today's podcasts that we have titled Debunking the Myths about Teaching Gifted Students, we will have a closer look at our gifted and talented students, and debunk the myths surrounding them, with research and our own experiences so that educators, advocates, and families can fully support these students in their education.

Kimberly Silva:

In fact, the research is clear, but academics in the field of gifted education commonly report that misconceptions around gifted population are still relatively widespread. Three commonly held misconceptions will be shared in this podcast. Christine, can you guess what they are?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Listen, before we started this whole planning, this whole podcast, I had about 20 misconceptions. We've put it down to three and I think they're pretty good. I think they're pretty good.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah. Two will focus on the gifted students, and one will focus on the classroom environment. Now, whether you're a fellow teacher, a parent, or simply passionate about education, this episode will challenge your perspective and inspire thought-provoking discussions.

Before we begin discussing the myths, Christine, I think it is fair to define the word giftedness. We have heard a lot of descriptions and definitions about giftedness or being gifted, but how this research define the word giftedness?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yes. And I will try and do this in two minutes. I'll try and do this in two minutes. All of the research... Well, not all of the research. I thought I'd begin with Gagne's model. And I want to begin by saying I know that I've mispronounced Gagne's. I think once during-

Christine Lambrianidis:

I think once during a workshop, I kept saying Gagne. They thought I was talking about shampoo. It was nuts. But Gagne's model is where it all really begins, or I still feel like he's always, that model is always brought up regardless of whether you're at a PD or you're reading an introduction to gifted education.

And that model is essentially about gifts being turned into talents. It's a process. And in Gagne's model in terms of giftedness or how you sort of turn that gift into a talent, in the middle of that process, how the gift becomes a talent, if you like, is a developmental transformative process, which has three elements to it. You've got the intrapersonal about the students themselves, who they are, what are they feeling, how are they thinking? You've got the environmental, where I think as teachers and as school leaders, that's where we really can affect what happens to these gifts these students have.

And then you have chance, which I think is quite an interesting thing to put in the middle of it all. But his whole model is about, a gift can be transformed into a talent, and there needs to be a crucial development process in order for that to happen. And the environment we create as the school, as leaders, as teachers is just so crucial to that development.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah. So that's one model of giftedness. But how does the Victorian Department of Education define giftedness?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Well, what happens now in our beautiful state of Victoria, we actually use the word highly able instead of giftedness. A lot of the teachers at my school have commented on the fact that when they're looking into that research, they see giftedness. But when we're talking about our students or when we are looking at things coming from our government, we have the phrase highly able.

We should do a whole other podcast on why that is. But when we use that word gift, there's something really transcendental about it, something really innate and essential about it. And what it does, it almost feels like it's been given to them. It's something they're born with. It's something we can't change.

Kimberly Silva:

Something that is innate in them.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Something that is innate in them. And that can be problematic, especially for teachers. Because of course, our job is about impact. So if what they have is already there, why are we even in the classroom in the first place?

So using that word highly able, it's something more concrete. It's their ability in one or more particular domain is high. And in terms of the domains that the Department of Education defines, you've got the intellectual ability, you've got the physical ability, you've got the creative ability, and the advanced social ability. And I love the fact that these things are there. Every time we say gifted, or gifted program, or talented, everyone jumps to that intellectual ability. It's intellectual ability.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah, that's correct.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. But it reminds me of when John Munro spoke to us during the Teaching Excellence Program, and he used an example of Dustin Martin, a footballer.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah, I remember that day.

Christine Lambrianidis:

You remember that? Yeah. So he was talking about how Dustin Martin was able to make connections quickly and fast to kick a certain way, to a certain player, use his body. And I was thinking to myself, "Dustin Martin, why are we discussing football during a Teaching Excellence Program?"

But that's giftedness. It can exist within our athletes. It can exist within our artists. It's not just math, science geniuses. So what I want to know, Kim, is I know that you are a part of a program.

Kimberly Silva:

Yes, that's correct. They teach the Innovate Kids at Mount Rowan. 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. There's the Innovate. There's the SEAL program. So Select Entry Accelerated Learning program in the government schools. There are select entry schools. There's also the Victorian High Ability Program. So there are a lot of things out there, even with independent schools, the association. And we're going to be using some of their research findings, the Australian Association of Gifted and Talented today, and we're going to be using other findings from those associations are there to also support gifted and talented students. 

So regardless of what sector you're at, regardless of which definition you're going to go with, you'll always come back to Gagne who'll remind you to shampoo your hair. There are things out there, I guess is what I'm saying. There are things out there to support our gifted students.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah. So I think we can go into the myths and also the realities, because you have defined giftedness fully from both sides of the coin. So for decades, myths related to gifted education have had detrimental effects on providing quality instruction for gifted and talented students. These myths have distorted the perception of not only what gifted students did in the classroom, but also what they can offer to society now and into the future.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. And we do know that myths and stereotypes, they can be problematic. They can be problematic. So today, we have identified three of the most common myths in gifted education. And I hope you all are guessing what those three things may be.

We will also share some research and share more about our experiences, and hopefully dispel some of those myths to lead to better teaching and learning for gifted students. Because at the end of the day, in the words of a great writer Adichie, not that the stereotype is wrong, it's just that it tells one story. So we really want to talk about different stories, different experiences that our gifted and talented students are experiencing and their teachers are experiencing too. So Kim, are you ready?

Kimberly Silva:

I am. Sure.

Christine Lambrianidis:

The first myth, what could it be? Go.

Kimberly Silva:

Myth number one, all gifted students are happy.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. Yeah. They're just smiling. You come to my school, everyone's smiling, happy. They're skipping. They're just loving life, because all teenagers are like that.

Kimberly Silva:

That is a myth, because the reality is that they all experience social difficulties.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah, they do.

Kimberly Silva:

In fact, the book entitled Family Education, they have identified nine challenges facing gifted students. Many gifted students flourish in their community and school environment. However, some gifted children differ in terms of emotional and moral intensity, sensitivity to expectations and feelings, perfectionism, and deep concerns about societal problems.

I have also noticed, Christine, that others do not share interests with their classmates. And this results in isolation or being labeled unfavorably as nerd. Because of these difficulties, the school experiences want to be endured rather than celebrated.

It is estimated that about 20% to 25% of gifted children have social and emotional difficulties. This is about twice as many as in the general population of students. Gifted students require support from whom and from school. So Christine, what could be some possible solutions to this?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. Before I get into the solutions, because there are just so many, so many ideas, so many things that we try to do as a school, I just want to share one example of what this perfectionism looks like. And for anyone listening who has taught a gifted student and has tried to give them feedback on their assessment would have experienced this, that there is definitely a very common trope of a block. Because when we are moving students, in terms of them writing an essay, doing particular math equations, for example. And they are low to middle, middle, going towards the high, that's one thing. That's a jump. And those students, there should be a whole other podcast series about all students. 

When we're talking about gifted and talented students, the result they get on their assessment for many of them is a huge part of their identity. And so the perfectionism comes from the fact that, "But this is what I can do. This is who I am. Why am I not doing it well?"

And if they believe that they have been the best for so long, and we challenge them... And that's what we're meant to do, right? We're meant to challenge them. We challenge them as teachers, because our job is impact. That's what we do. We tell them, "You could do this. You could try this. Why don't you try it this way?"

There's a real common block in their thinking, in their emotions, in them needing to almost come back from... And if I use one of my students' quotes that I have not forgotten, "I don't know how I'm going to come back from this, because what you've told me isn't what I thought I was."

And so there needs to be a focus on the student as a whole. They may believe this is their identity, but you remind them that they're learners. And learners, great learners should embrace mistakes, should say, "Yes, I don't know this. Tell me how I'm going to get out of this learning pit." And to actually create that resilience at our school comes from making time in our timetable. And do you see, I'm getting into the solutions now? I'm getting into the solutions as a part of our timetable, is that our students do things that are not academic. 

So as a school, you have to literally take time away from the academics to remind students that they exist in a world that isn't just about academics. They're not just their academic selves. So we've got a really strong co-curricular program, which encompasses sport, of course, but has really awesome things around dance and the arts. And I want to actually run the philosophy. So if anyone from my school is listening and timetables are being done now, I really want to run the philosophy club if you're listening. So different things that students can opt into every week, every two weeks, which takes them away from the academic side of themselves. Because we know so many things in the research around wellbeing. It's about the holistic approach. Right?

Kimberly Silva:

I agree.

Christine Lambrianidis:

It's the whole student that's so important. And I know that you've got quite a strong leadership program. We do too. I could talk for days about our wonderful leadership program, our ambassadors, our sports captain, our music captains, and how they're very much the public face of our school. You come to our school, you get a tour, our students tour you around. They're our ambassadors. You come to our school, and the year 12 and the year 10s need to all meet to talk about the formal. I've got student leaders telling me where I need to go and what thing I need to project up. They're leading those programs. So the other thing I will say is definitely strong, diverse co-curricular in there in the timetable, but led by the students, by and for the students

Kimberly Silva:

In my school, we have established what is known as the Innovate program, which is STEM focus. It used to be STEM, but then we've added art as an essential component of the program. And it's the students that are co-designing the program. So part of it is creating their own projects in order for them to be more involved. Because we are banking on the holistic development on the individual, not solely the academic side.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah, exactly. And probably going to create some amazing work, because that's what artists do. They work with scientists, and scientists work with artists to create some amazing theater projects.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah, that's right. I remember that every year, they are trying to create a model, a plan for their own escape room. That involves all of science, technology, engineering, arts, and mathematics components so that they can build that room. And so other students, and of course parents can visit the room and deal with all of the challenges that are inside that room.

Christine Lambrianidis:

The connections to community. That's fantastic. 

Kimberly Silva:

That's right. 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Fantastic.

Kimberly Silva:

We've heard a lot about myth number one. I think we're ready to proceed with myth number two, Christine. And what is it?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Well, myth number two is that all gifted students achieve academically. They all get A's, they all get A+.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah. So they perform extremely well in all assessments. Is that true? 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah, of course they do. I mean, I don't do anything when I go to school. I just sit there, I check my socials. No, there is the myth that they're all A and A+. You'll see it. And before I get into some of the research around this, I find it hilarious when I'd started at a select entry school, so many people were like, "You love it. Finally, you'll be there with kids."

Kimberly Silva:

It's like heaven, heaven teaching them.

Christine Lambrianidis:

But I think as teachers, we have this image of a perfect school and a perfect classroom. It's out there somewhere. Someone else is experiencing it. Because we're so reflective, we can see what we haven't done more than what we have. We don't see our impact enough. And we think that there's another, a better school and a better classroom out there.

But let me tell you, there isn't. There isn't. Teenagers are teenagers. Schools are schools. And I think it's about time we start to actually acknowledge that impact, the stuff we are doing, not the stuff that's not there. And I guess when people think about gifted kids... And I say kids because they're still kids. Yes, some of my students are definitely smarter than me, 100%. But of course, I'm the expert in the room. As teachers, we've got to acknowledge our expertise in our subject area, in our education, our experiences in life. And they are the apprentice. They're starting to learn that craft. They definitely will learn it a lot faster than me, but the learning still happens, and the learning still needs to happen.

So yes, gifted and talented students don't always get A and A+. And sometimes they don't do their homework. Can you believe it? They don't do their homework. I've heard some teachers when I tell them, "Yeah, I struggle to get the students to read the book sometimes." "How can you? But they're gifted students." But they're gifted students. They need to actually do that. 

And what's interesting is that there have been a lot of parliamentary inquiries into the education of gifted and talented students, and they were held between 1988 and 2001 at the federal level, and in Victoria in 2012. And it really did emphasize the underachievement of gifted children, especially with a particular center inquiry in the start of 2000, that suggested that up to half of gifted students underachieve at school with as many as 20% leaving prior to completion. So they're underachieving, but they're also not even finishing year 12. Can you believe this?

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah. I think this is the importance where, Christine, I need you to share your thoughts about growth versus achievement. Because a lot of people are confused with these two terms.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. And my students can find these two terms confusing as well. Because I think as schools, we're always looking at that summative data. We're always looking at the end result, instead of looking at the data that shows the journey. We've got to start bringing to light the data that is showing growth. Start looking at whether growth has occurred. 

Because for many of us, we may look at our data, and it may be amazing. It might be completely above state. So you've got your year 12 data in front of your teachers right now, you're above state and everything. You've got your feet up. Put your feet down. I want you to put your feet down. I really do. I want you to look at where those kids were in year 11 and compare it to where they're in year 12. Or you can do that with year eight to year nine.

Look at, what is the gap predicting? What's the value add there? What is the value add in general? Where is the growth? And that data exists for us.

But it's unfortunate that sometimes we as teachers, not just students, we're all about the end result. We live in a results world. They're going to a workplace that wants them to have KPIs, etc., etc. We want them to be resilient for that world. But in order for them to build that resilience at our schools, we've got to acknowledge where they've been true. Where were you at the start? Where are you now? And celebrate that. Celebrate that. Celebrate that growth mindset. I know it's overly used, but damn, it does actually mean something.

Kimberly Silva:

Yeah. I remember one day when we were chatting, you have told me something about your school review, and how this has equated to growth and achievement. Can you talk more about that?

Christine Lambrianidis:

We're currently reviewing our pedagogy, curriculum, and wellbeing whole school-wise. And one of the interesting things our wonderful curriculum group is looking at and is part of their recommendations is obvious acceleration, but compactness.

Because one of the things Hattie says about all students is that they're bored. They're bored at school. This I think is more so for gifted students. So it's really important we start to compact some of the things they need to learn. 

That's why it's really important to emphasize the formative assessment. I know this is all cliche. I am using it all now. But the formative, where are they at to guide everything you do?

And that's why responsive teaching makes sense to so many of us, because it's very much about where the students are at. And so that will then allow you to compact what they need to do and accelerate. 

One of the great things, I mentioned the curriculum group, I had to mention my own group pedagogy as well. They're going to get very jealous. We definitely have a huge in pedagogy, a wellbeing framework that underpins everything that is going on in terms of teaching in the classroom. Without that strong framework, you are not going to get academic excellence. You're not going to get that result. 

There have been so many schools, and so many, and by so many, I would say like a handful, but I exaggerate. Handful of schools, handful of classes where they achieve these amazing results at the end. And listen really carefully to when those teachers and students discuss those experiences. They don't remember the rope learning, the chalk and talk, the skill and drill, which I know many of us are probably doing now, because year 12 exams are coming. No judgment there. I'm doing it too. I'm doing it too. But many of them, the students and the teachers alike speak about those moments where they were challenged in their teaching and in their learning.

Kimberly Silva:

Because that's what makes learning more meaningful to them. 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah, exactly. And that's so important. And it's so important that in order to make those meaningful connections, in order to have a meaningful learning experience, you need to have that safe environment. You're not going to have academic excellence without it. What they remember are the friendships, the relationships. All of those things are critical.

If a student, especially a gifted student, does not trust you, they will not perform. Okay? That'll be my next PhD. Okay? I promise that'll be my next one. They will not perform. If you do not know them, really know them, not just know that they got A in the last test, but actually know that they like Taylor Swift and they didn't get tickets, like that. If you know that and you acknowledge that, you're halfway there. You're halfway there.

Kimberly Silva:

We have said a lot about myth number two. I think we're ready to move into the next one.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yes. And it's your turn. It's your turn. You're going to reveal our last myth. Go for it.

Kimberly Silva:

Myth number three. All gifted students are easy to teach in the classroom. They don't have behavior issues. Is that the case, Christine?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Not at all. Like I said, I've got my feet up. I've got my feet up.

Kimberly Silva:

In fact, there's a research from the Australian Association for the Education of the Gifted and Talented, and they found out that gifted students unpack problems by considering the whole, then it starts when processing, rather than thinking about the parts of a problem to build a whole picture. 

As is the case with most other students, it is often difficult for gifted students to reconstruct how they came to an answer. Asking gifted students to explain their processing to students who think differently to them can be highly frustrating for both, and it's not conducive to learning. So how do they exactly learn?

Christine Lambrianidis:

What a question. I've got three PhDs going now, Kim, what's going on? Too many, too many projects. How do they learn? Well, I think because this one's about classroom and this myth that rose-

Kimberly Silva:

They are easy to teach.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Easy to teach, roses and sunshine. I think on the surface, what you have are very compliant. Most part, not all. But if we're generalizing, they are compliant students because they're very interested in their academic outcome.

Kimberly Silva:

So you give them a test, they don't question, they just carry it out?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yep. Passive. They'll do it. They'll passively do that. They're used to that. They can do that. If you ask them to collaborate, to get into groups, to tell me why they think that, you get a lot of pushback from my experience. A lot of pushback. Why are we doing this? 

"How is this connected to the test, Dr L.? How is this connected to the test? Why are we doing this?" So as soon as you are doing something real, authentic, teaching them skills they'll need for life, but also teaching them skills they need to do the test as well. I can't have my lit kids have an authentic voice at the end, and just pour all the knowledge into them passively through death by PowerPoint. But somehow, they're going to come up with an authentic voice that's actually on our assessment criteria. As soon as you start to challenge them, as soon as you go off the script in their heads, they need to know why they're learning something though. Right?

Kimberly Silva:

It is important.

Christine Lambrianidis:

So what's challenging in a gifted, talented classroom? What's challenging for them is probably what a lot of mainstream kids love doing. "Group work. Great. We get to chat. We get to," but you get to-

Kimberly Silva:

Collaborate.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Exactly. And we know that as teachers, we are not there. It's not a machine. We're not just there to take out all of these A tasks. Right?

Kimberly Silva:

Well, I remember this is part of your fellowship. Can you tell us about it?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Any excuse to talk about the fellowship? Of course, here at the academy. But a part of my fellowship is to construct a pedagogy model for gifted and talented students, a framework if you like. Now, we have been through many iterations. Hi Shane. I hope you're listening, with Mr. Shane Woon. I'm working with wonderful, incredible, Mr. Shane Woon, learning specialist. And we have done many versions, many iterations of what this framework could look like through a lot of collaboration, consultation. 

And one of the things that we've set our heart on right now is that idea of challenge being at the center. Are we challenging our students? How are we challenging? What is the challenge? What is it? How can we actually build their resilience so they can meet that challenge?

Because our students are very challenge averse, right? They need to have that academic output. They need the A, the A+. Why are we doing this debate structure of things? So the way they need to actually, if you like, progress, develop, have the skills they need to function within society, not just to sit a test, is that we need to get them to face challenges. And for many, many of my students, that challenge has been, let's learn how to have a discussion and a debate so we can have different opinions going back and forth, and develop that, and change how we are thinking, because that passive learning is very detrimental. They're not developing. And don't get me started on assessments. Don't get me started on the week of assessments.

Kimberly Silva:

Because that's another podcast.

Christine Lambrianidis:

That's another podcast. There's another podcast, indeed. But I do want to just end this part by quoting John Munro again, where he has written, "Teachers don't interact with intelligence. They need to interact with how students learn, what they know, and how they use their knowledge."

Now, that is metacognition, that is knowing who your students are. So we keep saying gifted and talented students, but at the end of the day, they're students, they're individuals, they're teenagers, and we've got to know who they are. We have to know who they are and how they learn. And actually investing in that metacognitive aspect of learning is integral.

Kimberly Silva:

That's right. So we had deep conversations. I think we're going to have to lighten up the space by us playing the fast five Christine. I'm going to do it first and then you're going to follow.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Okay. All right. Cool. Done. Tell me the questions past five. Let's go. Let's go.

Kimberly Silva:

Morning or afternoon meeting?

Christine Lambrianidis:

An email. I don't want a meeting.

Kimberly Silva:

Canteen or homemade lunch?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Homemade. I'm sorry, canteen. I love everyone that works at canteen. They're great.

Kimberly Silva:

Funniest thing a student has said in your class.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Oh my gosh. They say funny things every day, but a recent one was, "Why are you sad?" I asked the student. "My favorite K-pop star is going to the army."

Kimberly Silva:

Yep. All right. Dream holiday destination?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Any Greek island. I'm a traditional gal.

Kimberly Silva:

Yep. And my last one is, which educator would you invite to a dinner party? And why?

Christine Lambrianidis:

Thompson or Dylan Williams. Thompson, obviously, because of all of the work that she's done in the gifted education, and I feel like I just always go back to her work. Dylan Williams, Williamson. I think I called. I thought I was thinking of the playwright David Williamson, but Dylan Williams, because I feel like I quote him at least once a week. And so I would like to actually see the person that created the quotes. And one of my favorite quotes of his that I've been using this week has been, "You might be teaching. It doesn't mean they're learning."

Kimberly Silva:

That's right. Fully agree. 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yes. Now your turn.

Kimberly Silva:

I'm ready. 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Are you ready? Favorite children's author?

Kimberly Silva:

Roald Dahl.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Controversial. Last series you watched.

Kimberly Silva:

Okay. On Netflix. One Piece.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Okay.

Kimberly Silva:

There's an anime version, which contains about 1,000 episodes. Don't watch that. You watch the live person version, which only has eight episodes.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Eight episodes. Okay. All right. Favorite teacher quote?

Kimberly Silva:

Everybody will agree with me. All students can learn.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Amen. If you weren't a teacher, what would you be?

Kimberly Silva:

Torn between choosing going into the medical field, like doctor, or on the hospitality side, being a waitress. I like serving people.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Yeah. You do. Two really, very diverse choices there. But I can see the connection. I like to be well, I like to be fed. So yeah, makes sense. Best teacher book?

Kimberly Silva:

Tuesdays with Morrie. Have you read that book? 

Christine Lambrianidis:

I haven't read it. What's it about?

Kimberly Silva:

It's a day-to-day, anecdotal record of a teacher's encounter with his students. It's just narrating his experiences in the classroom. 

Christine Lambrianidis:

Very interesting. Yeah, I have to check that out.

Kimberly Silva:

We're going to end by saying that gifted students can excel in areas such as leadership, visual, and performing arts, and even psychomotor activities. Many gifted students flourish in their community and school environment. However, some gifted students differ in their emotional and moral intensity, sensitivity to expectations and feelings, perfectionism, which you have mentioned a lot of times, Christine, and deep concerns about societal issues and problems. It is therefore our shared responsibility as educators to recognize this and respond the best way we can in addressing their individual needs.

Christine Lambrianidis:

So next time you teach individual gifted learners, and you should all have at least two or three of them in your class, don't tell me you don't. Teach a gifted class or teach at a select entry school. Remember, the students are not their gifts. They are individuals with diverse needs. And this concludes debunking the myths about teaching gifted students. Remember to always, always, always question any myths, but especially the myths we've shared with you today. And to, of course, subscribe to the Victorian Academy of Teaching and Leadership podcast series, and tune into more Teacher Tales-

Kimberly Silva:

Teacher Tales.

Christine Lambrianidis:

All right, thank you, Kim.

Kimberly Silva:

Thank you, Christine.

Christine Lambrianidis:

Bye now.

Outro:

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